Notizen zu dieser Person
What Was Veit Mannber? by Victor Schwarz Veröffentlicht 17 Sept 2008 von davidmumper What was Veit Mannber? There has been a lot of discussion about Veit Mannber, the brother of Johann Jacob and son of Martin Wilhelm. I know him as my 6th great grandfather. The discussion revolves about his occupation or title. Veit was born in Hechlingen on Aug. 21, 1683. Photocopies of hisbirth record are in the hands of Helen Hinchliff. I believe the Mamber/Mannber family moved to Ochsenbach in 1709. A March 1, 1709, listing of women receiving the yearly loaf of bread and glass of wine from the Burgermeister lists no Mannber/Mamber but in June of that yearJohann Jakob was married in Ochsenbach . Helen has researched the move and reported the following: "Members of the Franconian Genealogical Society have told me that the Mambers probably moved to Ochsenbach in part because of Veit's position with the nearby Tiergarten, located across the Kirchbach Valley from Ochsenbach. Their correspondent reported as follows: 'The ruling houses of Wurttemberg and Brandeburg-Ansbach repeatedly intermarried and exchanged employees back and forth, so if your ancestor was a forestry worker, his reason for emigrating from Hechlingen to Ochsenbach might have been that Duke Eberhard III of Wurttemberg erected a hunting castle and animal preserve near Ochsenbach and needed employees to operate it.'" --Helen Hinchliff The birth record of son Andreas in 1724 gives Veit's title as: "Burger und Mayer in Tiergarten". The title, "Mayer in Tiergarten" was repeatedly attached to him. The location of the Tiergarten can easilybe identified on old maps as the area just west of Ochsenbach which contains Kirbachhof - a small village/farmstead type of location. Roland Leucht commented: "The Tiergarten, no doubt, played an important part in the life of our ancestors. The name meaning "preserve foranimals" apparently was a private hunting estate for the Duke of Wuerttemberg. It lay between Ochsenbach and Hafnerhaslach occupying the Kirbach valley. On the eastern end on a hill overlooking the valley stood the Schoss, the palace of the Dukes of Wuerttemberg. The Schloss stood from 1664 to 1750. There is nothing left of the Schloss today. Further to the west was the "Mayeiei", where today stands thevillage of Kirbachhof. In ancient times there was a monastery thereand after the Reformation a Hofgut (farming estate). Our ancestor Veit Mannber (1683-1767) was often listed as "Mayor of Teirgarten". The exact meaning of this title is still under research." Early estimates suggested that "Mayer" indicated Veit was the head over the Tiergarten. Later research shows this is highly unlikely. For example, a document from 1732 [which I title Die Pfarrgemeinde] lists the persons in charge at Kirbach. There were (in this order) a Forstmeister [ranger or conservator of forests], a Forstverwalter [superintendent of forest], a Blumengartner [florist], a Tiergartner [gardener], a Seemeister [in charge of the lake] and "Einem Mayer, Veit Mamber cum. uj. mit 2 Kindern". As can be seen Veit is at the bottomof the list of officials/workers. For those not familiar with German this means Veit Mamber with his wife and 2 children. The German word given as Mayer is no longer in my dictionary. But it is obvious it has derived from the Latin and is the root of such words as major and mayor. This would indicate somebody in charge. Butwhat was he in charge of? Perhaps one should see the spelling as 'Meier' and note the dictionary definition as "steward of an estate or tenant of a (dairy) farm, (dairy) farmer)". I then jumped to the conclusion that Veit was the dairyman at the Tiergarten but needed to look further. I have in hand a map titled: "Geometrischer Plan, Herzogliche gutherzu Kirpbach im Thier Garten". It is a map of the Tiergarten and Kirbachhof showing the location of different areas such as forests and gardens. It has boxes in the upper left and right hand corners which seem to indicate an accounting of the income from various parcels in the Tiergarten. The one at the left contains the word "Mayerei" in 2places: once at the heading and once to identify the place of the Kitchen Garden. The Kitchen Garden is marked just to the left of the area once housing a monastery and later the Hofgut. My German dictionary says that "Meierei" means (dairy) farm; farmhouse. This opens the possibility that it was only a farmhouse at this location. But the careful listing of income from various parts of the farm does not show any income from a Meierei. All the income was from farmland, grassland and gardens. If income is shown from gardenvegetables it seems most certainly that it would have been mentionedfor dairy produce. I have another document page headed: "2801-2804 Stromberg , Stromberg Amtsorte, Stuttgart." One column lists officials and their datesfor the Stromberg District and lists Bromberg under it. An old map shows Bromberg as a location just south of Spielberg. Die Pfarrgemeinde, mentioned above, has an item on Bromberg stating it had a dairy (Melkerei) and a mill and both were under the Duchess who was wife ofEberhard Ludwig. Now at last we have a dairy and know that it is called a Melkerei and not a Meierei. Note: a search on Google Earth shows that there is still a large building or set of buildings at thislocation marked as "Bromberg Mill." Now going back to the 2801-2804 document, it lists the Hofmeisters [stewards] through the years in reverse order from 1675 to 1731 then it lists the "Bedienstete (employees) fur Bromberg and Kirbach". Thefourth listing is "Mannber Veit, Herrschaftl. Maier um 1742". Herrschaftlich means "belonging to a lord." Once again he is Maier, but now we have him connected to a dairy! But that dairy is in Bromberg!Apparently Veit worked both in Kirbachhof and Bromberg and lived in Kirbachhof. Where does that leave us? There was a "Meierei", what we would calla farmstead, at Kirbachhof. Veit was the Mayer, in charge, the steward. He did the work involved in that while others took care of the forest, the gardens and the lake. But he was also attached to Bromberg which had a dairy and a mill. This would add to his responsibilities and work. At this point I don't think we can define it any further than that. As others were called winegardeners, barrel makers, stone masons, Veit Mannber was a Mayer in the Tiergarten. At least I thought I had to leave it there until I ran across a posting in German by Konstantin Huber concerning the Eschler family in the early 1600's.[i] He lists "Abraham, Meier im Tiergarten bei Ochsenbach (1704-07)", and "Eschler, Peter, Meier im Tiergarten (1698-1702)". This throws a whole new light on it. Note first the spelling (aspelling noted above). The first meaning in my German dictionary is"major domo", which means "a man having charge of a great household,esp. of a princely establishment; a head steward." Now it is time to revisit that designation mentioned above: "Herrschaftl. Maier". "Herrschaftl" was an abbreviation for Herschaftliche, making this mean"His majesty's Steward". "His majesty", of course, would be the Duke who owned this Tiergarten. So Veit for a time was the Duke's steward as were the two Eschlers mentioned above. The next consideration is what would the Duke's steward do? I can think of three possibilities. 1)Act in the position of Burgermeister for this small settlement having administrative and governing responsibilities delegated by the Duke. 2)Business manager seeing to buying, selling, accounting and record keeping. The map mentioned above showed a detailed report on income from every phase of the Tiergarten. 3)Caretaker of the property, especially the buildings, houses, barns, etc. Of course, it could also be some combination of these three. What I feel very certain of is that he did not hold a position that we would think of as Superintendent of the Tiergarten, with authorityover all the workers and operations. In the listings I have of personnel on the Tiergarten the Mayer never stands at the top, but at thebottom and in he is listed as an employee. I think he had a very limited sphere of responsibility, although and important one. He was not a common 'day laborer'. Another question relates to the reason the Mambers came to Ochsebach. It has been assumed that because Veit was "Mayer" in the Tiergarten he was brought here to be the Mayer. However, the records starting with his marriage in 1717 and continuing through the birth of a child in 1722 give no position or occupation for him. As a matter of fact in 1719 Johannes Cronenmann is identified as "Major in Thiergarten." Starting in 1724 and running through 1742 the extant documents show Veit in this position. Then documents from 1751 to 1772 identifyhim as "Bauersmann [farmer] in Ochsenbach" -- apparently no longer living or working in the Tiergarten. My estimate is this. Yes, they came to Ochsenbach on some kind of trade among the nobility. For a time Veit worked in the Tiergarten, but was not in a position of responsibility. After 1722 he was elevated to a position as Mayer and held it for more than 20 years. At hisdeath he was remembered not as Mayer but as a farmer. Victor Schwarz September 6, 2008 [i] http://www.geneal-forum.com/forum_d/showthread.php?id=2060&PHPSESSID=627d79ef1167e22d3be9726aac404d02 Hechlingen: The Earliest Known Village of the Mamber Family, by Helen Hinchliff Veröffentlicht 22 Sept 2008 von davidmumper Hechlingen: The Earliest Known Village of the Mamber Family* by © by Helen Hinchliff, Ph.D., 1990, 2000 Certified Genealogist Mumper family researchers interested in discovering the villagein which Michael Mumper's father, Johann Jacob Mamber, was born haveencountered a major problem. The Ochsenbach church register reports his birthplace as Bachlingen, a village in a larger area called Onolzbach. Neither of these place names exists in modern Germany; nevertheless, I was able to identify Johann Jacob Mamber’s place of birth. This paper describes the process the author used to find it. Trying to Identify the Village Georg Michael Mannber/Mamber/Mumper was born in Ochsenbach and was baptized there on 23 January 1724.1 He was the son of Johann Jacob Mannber and Maria Catharina Wolff, who were married in Ochsenbach 18 June 1709. Their marriage record reports that Johann Jacob was the son of Martin Mannber from the "Hostfurstlichen Onolzbachischen amtei Bachlingen" [the village of Bachlingen in the Margravate of Onolzbach].2 That seems to be a straightforward placename, but what and where could this place be? A wide variety of historical and modern German maps were consulted, and none showed the Margravate of Onolzbach. Moreover, several standard German encyclopaedias did not carry an entry for it.3 Setting Onolzbach aside temporarily, the location of a village or town named Bachlingen was next attempted. The Deutscher Generalatlas 4includes every village in Germany, but no place called Bachlingen could be found in its index; however, it lists Bächlingen, near the town of Langenberg, about 70 kilometers northeast of Ochsenbach. It isunlikely that a parish clerk would have omitted the umlaut from the village name‑‑thus changing its pronunciation to something approximating “Bechlingen”; however, Bächlingen seemed a plausible place of origin for Johann Jacob Mannber in terms of distance. The locality indexof Morman Church Family History Library led to a microfilmed copy ofthe Bächlingen parish records, but a thorough review of the entire roll revealed that no Mannbers or Mambers had ever been baptized, married, or buried there.5 Studying Collateral Relatives Sooner or later every genealogist learns the importance of studyingcollateral relatives, because it is sometimes the case that the records of brothers, sisters and cousins are fuller or more accurate thanis the record on one's immediate ancestor. This is as true with German records as it is with those in English. They may be more time‑consuming and difficult to locate and read in a language with which one is not familiar; nevertheless, collateral ancestors should be researched. In this case, they provided the key to solving the puzzle. A detailed review of the Ochsenbach baptism, marriage and burial records was done. Marriage records for Johann Jacob Mannber's brother, Veit, and a probable cousin, Johann Jerg, were located. These providedadditional, although initially confusing information. Johann Jerg, the son of Johann Michael Mannber, married 26 January 1712 Anna Margaretha, the daughter of Johann Kohler; Johann Jerg Mannber was reported to have come from Hochlingen in the "Brandenburgisch‑Onolzbachischer Herrschaft."6 Veit Mannber, the son of Martin Mannber, married Anna Regina Neffert (sp?) 23 October 1717 and was reported to have comefrom Hechlingen (no larger political entity given).7 Having three different village names did not seem at first to advance the cause. Nevertheless, like his possible cousin Johann Jacob Mannber, Johann Jerg Mannber had come from the larger entity of Onolzbach, but in his case it was somehow associated with Brandenburg, a margravate in the northern part of Germany. The identification of this place called Onolzbach had now become critical. Learning Some German History Continued search for maps in the collection of the University of Victoria in British Columbia was fruitless; however, a breakthrough came when "Onolzbach" was sought in the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica. Although it contained no entry as such, the name appeared in the index, cross‑referenced to Ansbach. Under that entry it was reported that Onolzbach was the original name of the Margravate ofAnsbach, located in Mittelfranken; it was transferred to Bavaria byNapoleon in 1806.8 A thorough review of the encyclopaedia's series of historical maps of Germany showed no margravate called Onolzbach; the earliest one to include the specific area in question‑‑dated 1547‑‑identified it as Ansbach, so it appears that the name "Onolzbach" is quite old.9 To add confusion, Brandenburg was considerably to the north of Ansbach, then as now. No standard English reference could befound to explain a connection between Ansbach and Brandenburg; however, the Brockhaus Enzyklopaedie reported that Ansbach‑Bayreuth was aformer Franconian principality in the possession of the Hohenzollerns since 1251. In 1411 they added the Margravate of Brandenburg to their holdings.10 (That the Mannbers would have referred to their place of birth in historically and politically sophisticated terms suggests that they may have been educated.) Identification of Hechlingen At the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, considerable progress was made in locating the right village. There, Trudy Shenk, accredited researcher and one of the compilers of the Wuerttemberg Emigration Index,11 agreed to review the marriage records of Johann Jacob, Johann Jerg, and Veit Mannber and to assist in identifying their varying birth places. She verified the place names noted above as having been accurately transcribed and concluded that the parish clerk must have had no clear idea of the origin of the three young men. As Onolzbach was common as a place of origin to two of the men, since it was the former name for Ansbach, and since Ansbach is located in what is now Bavaria, Ms. Shenk suggested a search in the Ortschaften‑Vereichnis für den Freistaat Bayern, a gazeteer for Bavaria listing every village and hamlet. No Hochlingen or Bachlingen was found, but Hechlingen was listed as a village of about 750 inhabitants, located 19 kilometers east of Ottingen in the Oberamt of Nordlingen in Mittelfranken, an area in northern Bavaria.12 Finding the Records Unfortunately, the FHL collection does not include a microfilmed record of the Hechlingen parish records. As a substitute Ms. Shenk suggested the Brenner collection, a microfilmed series of family group sheets and other materials extracted from 97 parish registers in the Franconian area of Ansbach‑Bayreuth. The Hechlingen parish records had not been extracted, but a quick review of the alphabetized names yielded the finding that the name Mamber/Mambar occurs in Mittelfranken.13 Further support for this notion came from a search of the FHL family registry index. One researcher reported that she was seeking information on an Apollonia Mannbahr, 1758‑1804, from Merkendorf, a town about 17 kilometers southeast of the city of Ansbach.14 Writing to Germany Michael Palmer, Research Director of the German Genealogical Societyof America, provided addresses for institutions or people to whom towrite: the Geselleschaft für Familienforschung im Franken [the Franconian Genealogical Society],15 the Pfarramt [pastorate] of Hechlingen,16 and E. Mambar, a possible relative, living in nearby Hohentrüdingen, about two kilometers from Hechlingen.17 Letters were drafted‑‑and translated into German‑‑directed to each of the three. Replies were soon forthcoming. 1. The Possible Relative. The letter to E. Mambar included the names of the three Mannber men, their fathers, and their likely birthdates; in addition, the possibility of a relationship was suggested. Within three weeks Frau Emma Mambar replied, sending an elaborately detailed Stammbaum [family tree] which contained many of the same Christian names found in the Mannber family of Ochsenbach. She reported one striking coincidence: a Georg Michael Mamber, who was a baker, hadalso emigrated to America‑‑about 100 years after the author's identically named ancestor‑‑and had later returned home.18 Unfortunately, her family tree did not go back quite far enough to allow for a link in the two families, although it seems plausible that one could be found given adequate records. 2. The Genealogical Society. The letter directed to the genealogical society in Nürnberg gave the same information on the three Mannbers of Ochsenbach and requested the name of a member who would be able, on commission, to prepare a paper explaining the history of the period involved and to be able to offer a good reason for the emigration of the three young men to Ochsenbach. It was noted that confirmation of the hypothesis that the young men had come from Hechlingen was being sought from the Pfarrer, but that their origin was almost certain. Within about eight weeks a reply arrived recommending a particular genealogist and providing a reason for the move: We cannot explain why this family in the Margravate of Ansbach emigrated to Ochsenbach. If, however, your ancestor was a forestry assistant, the reason for emigrating might have been that Duke Eberhard IIIof Wurttemberg erected a hunting castle and animal preserve [which is located very close to Ochsenbach]. The ruling houses of Württemberg and Brandenburg‑Ansbach repeatedly intermarried and exchanged employees back and forth.19 This was an interesting piece of news because Veit Mannber's occupation at the time of the baptism of his children was Mayor [supervisor]of the Duke's Tiergarten, [forestry preserve].20 3. The Pastor. A letter was sent to the pastor giving the names of the three men and requesting their baptismal records. To aid his search, their fathers' names, and their probable baptismal dates were also given. These dates were based on the ages given at death ofJohann Jacob and Johann Jerg; Veit's death record had not yet been located, but based on his later marriage date, it was suggested that he might have been slightly younger than Johann Jacob.21 After four months photocopies of the baptismal records for all threeboys were received, Johann Jacob Mamber, the son of Martin and Margaretha (‑?‑), was baptized 24 August 1681, and his brother Veit was baptized 21 August 1683. Johann Georg Mamber, the son of Hanns Michaeland Apollonia (‑?‑) Mamber, was baptized on 3 October 1681. Their surname was spelled Mamber and not Mannber as the Ochsenbach parish register had incorrectly recorded it for over 100 years. The pastor volunteered the interesting information that the name "Mamber" was common in the Kirchenbuch records of the 17th century. Follow‑up Herr Georg Fick, of Ansbach and a member of the Franconian Genealogical Society, has since researched the Hechlingen Kirchenbuch and hastraced the family to 1621, as far back as the records go. He reconstructed the family of Martin and Margaretha (‑?‑) Mamber, showing that Johann Jacob and Veit were the fourth and fifth of eight children and reported that Martin had been a Maurer (mason). Herr Fick discovered that he had been baptized Martin Wilhelm, the son of Paul and ‑?‑(‑?‑) Mambrecht, 17 April 1640, the earliest variant spelling. Unfortunately, most of the baptisms for that time period were missing, soHerr Fick was unable to reconstruct the family of Paul Mambrecht. Finally, he reported on all other Mamber families located in the records between 1621 and 1700.22 Herr Fick also forwarded a tourist pamphlet on Ansbach, which reported that the city was formerly named Onolzbach and was first mentionedas a municipality in 1221, whether as "Ansbach" or as "Onolzbach" the brochure did not make clear.23 In 1990, my husband and I visited Hechlingen and the surrounding area. It is a much larger village than Ochsenbach and was perhaps also larger in the early 18th century when the Mambers emigrated from there. It seems likely that Ochsenbach, which was very poor in the early to mid 18th century, had suffered a population loss and that there were opportunities there for the Mambers. Notes and References *This paper is adapted from Helen Hinchliff, “Using Collateral Relatives to Locate a 17th-Century German Ancestor,” German Genealogical Society Bulletin 4 (Jan. Feb. 1990), 7-11. Helen Hinchliff is an eighth-generation descendant of Michael Mumper who, between 1983 and 1989, identified many of Michael Mumper’s descendants to the eighth generation. Information in this biography may be used in for private research and should be attributed to Helen. For further information, conta 1. Evangelische Kirche, Ochsenbach Birth Records, 1558‑1740. FHL 1184602. 2. Ibid. Ochsenbach Marriage Records, 1564‑1740. 3. Brockhaus Enzyklopaedie, 20 vols., 1966; Myers Enzyklopaedisches Lexicon, 25 vols., 1971; Das Bertlesmann Lexicon, 7 vols, 1966; Der Grosse Herder, 9 vols, 1957. 4. Deutscher Generalatlas, (Stuttgart: Mairs Geographischer Verlag,1967). 5. Evangelische Kirche, Bachlingen, Baptism, Marriage and Burial Records, 1586‑1800, FHL 1340112. 6. Ochsenbach Marriage Records, 1564‑1740, FHL 1184602. 7. Ibid. 8. Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th ed., s.v. "Ansbach." 9. Ibid., s.v. "Germany." 10. Brockhaus Enzyklopaedie, 1966 ed., s.v. "Ansbach." 11. Trudy Shenk and Ruth Froelke, comps. The Wuerttemberg Emigration Index, 5 vols. (Salt Lake City: Ancestry Publishing, 1987). Although this index should be consulted for 19th century emigrants from Wurttemberg, it may provide clues for 18th century emigrants with rare or unusual names. Christina Mamber emigrated from Ochsenbach in January 1855 to North America at age 25 (I:126). The only Mamber in the index, she was a great grandniece of Georg Michael Mannber/ Mamber/Mumper, who emigrated from the same village in 1751. 12. Ortschaften‑Verzeichnis für den Freistaat Bayern, nach der Volkszahlung vom 16 Juni 1925 und dem Gebietsstand vom 1. Januar 1928, Heft 109, der Beitrage zur Statistik Bayerns, p. 1240. 13. Tobias Brenner, "Brenner Collection of Genealogical Records of Mittelfranken, Bayern, Germany." 764 microfilm reels. FHL 541918. 14. Isolde Nishino, 25400 Village Road, Hemet, CA, 92344, (714) 658‑9211. "Manbahr" is a variant spelling of Mannber/Mamber/Mumper andwas the first recorded spelling of the Mumper family in America, when Christina, the daughter of Michael and Margaretha Manbahr was baptized in York County, Pa., 19 Aug. 1760. Henry James Young, trans. "The Union Register of the Lower Bermudian Church in Huntington (now Latimore) Township [York, now Adams County], 1745‑1864," (manuscript: Adams County Historical Society, Gettysburg), 6 (no. 108). 15. Geselleschaft für Familienforschung im Franken, Archivstrasse 17, D‑8500 Nurnberg 10, Federal Republic of Germany. 16. Evang.‑Luth. Pfarramt Hechlingen, Kirchenstrasse 4, 8824 Hechlingen am See, Federal Republic of Germany. 17. E. Mambar, Obere Zeil 1, Hohentrudingen, D8824 Heidenheim, Federal Republic of Germany. 18. This immigrant was easily located in a list of 19th century German immigrants. Michael Mammbar emigrated from Hamburg to New York, arriving 21 May 1851, was 32 years old, and his occupation was baker. Ira A. Glazer and P. William Filby, eds. Germans to America: Lists of Passengers Arriving at U.S. Ports, 1850‑1855, 7 vols. (Wilmington, DE: Scholarly Resources, 1988, I:515. 19. Letter of Herr Bullemer to Helen Hinchliff, 27 Jan. 1989. 20. Ochsenbach, Baptism Records, 1558‑1740. Veit Mannber had children baptized on the following dates: 13 July 1719, 21 September 1720, 21 May 1722, 2 May 1724, 17 May 1727, and 15 June 1729. The first entry of an occupation for him was as "Mayor" of the "Tiergarten") in 1727. 21. Hans Jacob Mannber died 22 Dec. 1729, aged 48 years, 18 weeks, and 4 days; Ochsenbach, Death Records, 1650‑1740; Hans Jerg Mannber died 22 Nov. 1748, aged 67 years, and seven weeks. Ibid., 1740‑1795.A birth year of 1681 could be estimated for both men. 22. Report of Herr Fick to Helen Hinchliff, 25 July 1989. In his report Herr Fick noted the following major gaps in the records: (1) theearliest baptismal record in the Kirchenbuch was 1621, but the baptisms for 1633‑1637 and 1641 to 1660 were missing (consequently, it was not possible to reconstruct the siblings of Martim Wilhelm Mambrecht/Mamber); (2) marriage records prior to 1693 were missing (consequently, it was not possible to find the marriage record of Martin Wilhelm and his wife Margaretha, or of Martin Wilhelm's father Paul and his unnamed wife); and (3) the death records began in 1621, but thosebetween 1633 and 1719 were missing (consequently, it was not possible to affix death dates for Paul, his wife, nor of Martin Wilhelm andhis wife Margaretha). 23. "Ansbach Information," Municipal Tourist Office, Ansbach, 1984. What was Veit Mannber? (revised 2011) by Victor Schwarz Veröffentlicht 11 März 2011 von kmumper1 What was Veit Mannber? There has been a lot of discussion about Veit Mannber, the brother of Johann Jacob and son of Martin Wilhelm. I know him as my 6th greatgrandfather. The discussion revolves about his occupation or title. Veit was born in Hechlingen on Aug. 21, 1683. Photocopies of his birth are in the hands of Helen Hinchliff. I believe the Mamber/Mannber family moved to Ochsenbach in 1709. A March 1, 1709, listing of womenreceiving the yearly loaf of bread and glass of wine from the Burgermeister lists no Mannber/Mamber but in June of that year Johann Jakobwas married in Ochsenbach . Helen has researched the move and reported the following: "Members of the Franconian Genealogical Society have told me that the Mambers probably moved to Ochsenbach in part because of Veit's position with the nearby Tiergarten, located across the Kirchbach Valley from Ochsenbach. Their correspondent reported as follows: 'The ruling houses ofWurttemberg and Brandeburg-Ansbach repeatedly intermarried and exchanged employees back and forth, so if your ancestor was a forestry worker, his reason for emigrating from Hechlingen to Ochsenbach might have been that Duke Eberhard III of Wurttemberg erected a hunting castle and animal preserve near Ochsenbach and needed employees to operate it.'" --Helen Hinchliff The birth record of son Andreas in 1724 gives Veit's title as: "Burger und Mayer in Tiergarten". The title, "Mayer in Tiergarten" was repeatedly attached to him. The location of the Tiergarten can easily beidentified on old maps as the area just west of Ochsenbach which contains Kirbachhof - a small village/farmstead type of location. Roland Leucht commented: "The Tiergarten, no doubt, played an important part in the life of our ancestors. The name meaning "preserve foranimals" apparently was a private hunting estate for the Duke of Wuerttemberg. It lay between Ochsenbach and Hafnerhaslach occupying the Kirbach valley. On the eastern end on a hill overlooking the valley stood the Schoss, the palace of the Dukes of Wuerttemberg. The Schlossstood from 1664 to 1750. There is nothing left of the Schloss today.Further to the west was the "Mayeiei", where today stands the village of Kirbachhof. In ancient times there was a monastery there and after the Reformation a Hofgut (farming estate). Our ancestor Veit Mannber (1683-1767) was often listed as "Mayor of Teirgarten". The exact meaning of this title is still under research." Early estimates suggested that "Mayer" indicated Veit was the head over the Tiergarten. Later research shows this is highly unlikely. Forexample, a document from 1732 [which I title Die Pfarrgemeinde] lists the persons in charge at Kirbach. There were (in this order) a Forstmeister [ranger or conservator of forests], a Forstverwalter [superintendent of forest], a Blumengartner [florist], a Tiergartner [gardener], a Seemeister [in charge of the lake] and "Einem Mayer, Veit Mamber cum. uj. mit 2 Kindern". As can be seen Veit is at the bottom of the list of officials/workers. For those not familiar with German this means Veit Mamber with his wife and 2 children. The German word given as Mayer is no longer in my dictionary. But itis obvious it has derived from the Latin and is the root of such words as major and mayor. This would indicate somebody in charge. But what was he in charge of? Perhaps one should see the spelling as 'Meier' and note the dictionary definition as "steward of an estate or tenant of a (dairy) farm, (dairy) farmer)". I then jumped to the conclusion that Veit was the dairyman at the Tiergarten but needed to look further. I have in hand a map titled: "Geometrischer Plan, Herzogliche gutherzu Kirpbach im Thier Garten". It is a map of the Tiergarten and Kirbachhof showing the location of different areas such as forests and gardens. It has boxes in the upper left and right hand corners which seem to indicate an accounting of the income from various parcels in the Tiergarten. The one at the left contains the word "Mayerei" in 2 places: once at the heading and once to identify the place of the Kitchen Garden. The Kitchen Garden is marked just to the left of the areaonce housing a monastery and later the Hofgut. My German dictionary says that "Meierei" means (dairy) farm; farmhouse. This opens the possibility that it was only a farmhouse at this location. But the careful listing of income from various parts of the farm does not show any income from a Meierei. All the income was fromfarmland, grassland and gardens. If income is shown from garden vegetables it seems most certainly that it would have been mentioned for dairy produce. I have another document page headed: "2801-2804 Stromberg , Stromberg Amtsorte, Stuttgart." One column lists officials and their dates for the Stromberg District and lists Bromberg under it. An old map shows Bromberg as a location just south of Spielberg. Die Pfarrgemeinde,mentioned above, has an item on Bromberg stating it had a dairy (Melkerei) and a mill and both were under the Duchess who was wife of Eberhard Ludwig. Now at last we have a dairy and know that it is calleda Melkerei and not a Meierei. Note: a search on Google Earth shows that there is still a large building or set of buildings at this location marked as "Bromberg Mill." Now going back to the 2801-2804 document, it lists the Hofmeisters [stewards] through the years in reverse order from 1675 to 1731 then it lists the "Bedienstete (employees) fur Bromberg and Kirbach". The fourth listing is "Mannber Veit, Herrschaftl. Maier um 1742". Herrschaftlich means "belonging to a lord." Once again he is Maier, but now we have him connected to a dairy! But that dairy is in Bromberg! Apparently Veit worked both in Kirbachhof and Bromberg and lived in Kirbachhof. Where does that leave us? There was a "Meierei", what we would calla farmstead, at Kirbachhof. Veit was the Mayer, in charge, the steward. He did the work involved in that while others took care of the forest, the gardens and the lake. But he was also attached to Bromberg which had a dairy and a mill. This would add to his responsibilities and work. At this point I don't think we can define it any further than that. As others were called winegardeners, barrel makers, stone masons, Veit Mannber was a Mayer in the Tiergarten. At least I thought I had to leave it there until I ran across a posting in German by Konstantin Huber. In postings on the “Geneal-Forum” he gives the results of research of the churchbook at Ochsenbach. He gives 3 lists of personnel at Kirbach and Bromberg. Since the two areclosely tied there was overlapping between the two. The first list he titles: “ Meier (Verwalter)”. Thus he gives his interpretation of the “Meier” as an administrator. “Verwalter” could also be translatedas caretaker, custodian, steward, trustee, etc. Eleven names are given running from 1681-1735. The following is in the list: “1724-1731 Veit Mannber, aus dem Ansbachischen, oo Anna Regina.“ The squares withall the other information we know. The second list given by Herr Huber is “Melker”, which is translated‘milker’. These were all at Bromberg/Stromsberg, where I have previously identified a dairy. This list goes from 1667 to 1713. Viet is not in this list. The third list is titled: “Knechte (auswahl)” These would be servants or workers in different area of responsibility. At Kirbahhof the list goes from 1674 to 1729. Among them Elisabetha Kerner is designated as “Melkerie-Bediente” [milkmaid]. This confirms that there was also a dairy at Kirbach and there was a special designation for those who worked in it. Two men were listed as “Meierei-Knecht“. Refer aboveto “Meierei”. This does not appear to be workers in the dairy. This new information throws a whole new light on the subject. Note first the spelling (a spelling noted above). The first meaning in my German dictionary is "major domo", which means "a man having charge ofa great household, esp. of a princely establishment; a head steward." Now it is time to revisit that designation mentioned above: "Herrschaftl. Maier". "Herrschaftl" was an abbreviation for Herschaftliche,making this mean "His majesty's Steward". "His majesty", of course, would be the Duke who owned this Tiergarten. So Veit for a time was the Duke's steward as were the others mentioned above. The next consideration is what would the Duke's steward do? I can think of three possibilities. 1)Act in the position of Burgermeister for this small settlement having administrative and governing responsibilities delegated by the Duke. 2)Business manager seeing to buying, selling, accounting and record keeping. The map mentioned above showed a detailed report on income from every phase of the Tiergarten. 3)Caretaker of the property, especially the buildings, houses, barns, etc. Of course, it could also be some combination of these three. What I feel very certain of is that he did not hold a position that we would think of as Superintendent of the Tiergarten, with authorityover all the workers and operations. In the listings I have of personnel on the Tiergarten the Mayer never stands at the top, but at the bottom and in he is listed as an employee. I think he had a very limited sphere of responsibility, although and important one. He was nota common 'day laborer'. Another question relates to the reason the Mambers came to Ochsebach. It has been assumed that because Veit was "Mayer" in the Tiergarten he was brought here to be the Mayer. However, the records startingwith his marriage in 1717 and continuing through the birth of a child in 1722 give no position or occupation for him. As a matter of fact in 1719 Johannes Cronenmann is identified as "Major in Thiergarten." Starting in 1724 and running through 1742 the extant documents show Veit in this position. Then documents from 1751 to 1772 identify him as "Bauersmann [farmer] in Ochsenbach" -- apparently no longer living or working in the Tiergarten. My estimate is this. Yes, they came to Ochsenbach on some kind of trade among the nobility. For a time Veit worked in the Tiergarten, butwas not in a position of responsibility. After 1722 he was elevated to a position as Mayer and held it for more than 20 years. At his death he was remembered not as Mayer but as a farmer. Victor Schwarz Revised: February 25, 2011
Hans Peter
Wuth
