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Book - 1 PERI Visitations - Kent of 1574, pub Harleian 1923, Guildford p. 77 Usenet Group - Brad Verity, 11 Dec 2003, "Robert Mortimer m. Isabel Howard" Book - 1 PERI Dictionary of National Biography, 1st Edn, Ed leslie Stephen et al - (Various - see each article) - Oxford University Press, 1885 to 1900, c. 50 Vols - His father-in-law, John Howard's articleoups: soc.genealogy.medievalSubject: Robert Mortimer m. Isabel HowardDaty) wrote in message news on Oct.14, 2003:>>Could Sir Robert Mortimer of Essex been a son of Sir HughMortimer "of>Mortimer's Hall" (d. 1460) -the elder son and heir?Turns out he wasn't - see below.>It would explain the "Mortimer's Hall" reference in bothotherwise>unrelated Mortimerbranches. Though we still don't know whichcounty>it was in."Mortimer'sHall" was apparently a mistake for "Divers lands andtenements in Harwiche and Dovercourte [Essex] called 'Mortimers', worth5l., held of the said Earl [of Oxford]." See below.Jim Weber replied on 15-Oct-2003:"Onanother tack, I had contacted The Richard III Foundation,whichmaintainsa Battle of Bosworth Field website, showing that SirRobertMortimer ofThorpe le Soken was slain at the battle."The Foundation was quite correct. Robert Mortimer (he was not aknight), according to his IPM, died "22 Aug., 1 Hen. VII". See below."Jo Ann Ricca also stated that, looking on the internet, shefound hisfather to be named David. I have seen this on the internet too,but Ihave found no source given for where the name "David" came from,soFWIW."His father was indeed David Mortimer - see below."I have tried several variations of the name Mortimer on PRO andA2Aand have not come up with anything related to Thorpe le Soken.Thorpele Soken may not have been a large holding, and Robert may wellhavebeen "of Mortimer's Hall" (possibly in Hampshire; or inStratfieldMortimer,Berkshire, just across the border from Hampshire?)."No Mortimer's Hallfor Robert - someone got confused and themistake has been picked up inseveral sources. Thorpe le Soken'sassociation with these Mortimers isdescribed in 1486: "Manor of Landymer Hall in theparish of Thorp within the soke of St. Paul's, London, worth 10l., held ofthe Dean of St. Paul's, as of his said soke, by fealty and suit of court."See below.Not sure what a 'soke' is.And now the mystery of 'Who was Robert Mortimer, husband ofIsabel Howard?' is solved, thanks to the beauty of IPMs. He was the son andheir of David Mortimer, esquire, and of Isabel (aka Elizabeth), daughter ofElizias Doreward (aka Durward), of Martel Hall and Great Bramley, Essex.Here are the IPMs of Robert Mortimer and his fatherDavidMortimer, as printed in the CIPMs for Henry VII (Volume 1):"100.ROBERT MORTYMER.Com. 17 July, 1 Hen. VII; inq. 31 Oct., 2 Hen. VII.OneIsabel Durward was seised in fee of the under-mentionedmanors of MartelHall, and Great Brumley, and of 200a. land in Dovercorte, andintermarried with David Mortymer, esq., and had issue by him the said Robert.David Mortymer survives, and is seised of the said manors and lands,as tenant by the curtesy, with reversion to the said Robert and his heirs.Thesaid Robert died 22 Aug., 1 Hen. VII [1485 - killed atBosworth with his father-in-law John Howard, Duke of Norfolk], seised of theunder-mentioned manor of Landymer Hall, and lands called 'Badons', 'FoltonHall,' and 'Panteryse' in fee. Elyzabeth Mortymer, aged 10 and more, ishis daughter and heir.ESSEX. The reversion of the manor of Martel Hall in Ardele,within the hundred of Tendryng, worth 24l., held of the King, as oftheduchy of Lancaster, by 1/8 of a knight's fee.The reversion of a moiety of the manor of Great Brumley, worth20l., held of the Earl of Oxford, as of Hedingham Castle, by fealty and suitof court.The reversion of200a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture inDovercorte, worth 5l., held ofthe Earl of Notingham [William Berkeley, co-heir tothe Mowbray inheritance along with John Howard, Duke of Norfolk], as of themanor of Dovercorte.A messuage, 300a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture, and 3s. rentin Tendryng and Manytre, called 'Badons', worth 8 marks, held of the King inchief, by service of 1/2 of a knight's fee.Manor of Landymer Hall in the parish of Thorp within the soke ofSt. Paul's, London, worth 10l., held of the Dean of St. Paul's, as of hissaid soke, by fealty and suit ofcourt.A messuage, and 200a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture in theparish of Ramsey, called 'Folton Hall,' worth 100s., tenure unknown.A messuage, and 100a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture in theparish of Dovercorte, called 'Panteryse,' worth 4 marks, held of the saidEarl of Notingham, as of his said manor, by fealty and suit of court.C. Series II. Vol.1 (104.)"Since the manor of Landymer Hall (in the Thorpe le Sokenparish), plus the lands called 'Badons', 'Folton Hall' and 'Panteryse' wereheldby Robert Mortimer himself, and Robert died before his father, these landsmust have been given to him by his parents, and/or his father-in-law JohnHoward, probably at his marriage to Isabel, eldest daughter ofHoward.This IPM tells us Robert's mother 'Isabel Durward' died before1486. Also, that Elizabeth Mortimer was the only surviving child of RobertMortimer and Isabel Howard, and was born around 1476. Since none oftheseHen. VII CIPM abstracts mention dower, we cannot be certain thatIsabel Howarddied before her husband Robert - perhaps the Close, Fine or Patent Rolls ofthe 1480s can shed further light."1006. DAVID MORTYMER.Writ 7 April, 9 Hen. VII; inq. 16 Oct., 10 Hen. VII.At the time of his death he held by the curtesy of England the under-mentioned manor ofMartels, a moiety of the manor ofBramley, the advowson of the church ofBramley, and lands in Harwiche andDovercourte, in right of Elizabeth his wife, daughter and heir of EliziasDoreward.He was seised of the other moiety of Great Bramley manor called'Morleys' in fee, and being so seised enfeoffed John Squiore, clk., thereofin fee to the use of himself,David, and his heirs; and being so seised thesaid John enfeoffed William Pykenam, clk., John Reifford, or Reisford, andHenry Teye, esqs., andWilliam Breton and William Teye, 'gentilmen,' thereofto the same use.He died 30 March last [1494]. Elizabeth Gylford, aged 18 andmore, wifeof George Gylford, and daughter of Robert Mortymere, esq., is hiscousinand heir.ESSEX. Manor of Martels in Ardelegh, worth 20 marks, held ofthe King, as of the duchy of Lancaster, service unknown.A moiety of themanor of Great Bramley, with the advowson of thechurch of Bramley, worth 20 marks, held of John, Earl of Oxford, serviceunknown.Divers landsand tenements in Harwiche and Dovercourte called'Mortemers,' worth 5l.,held of the said Earl, service unknown.A moiety of the manor of GreatBramley, called 'Morleys,' worth20 marks, held of the said Earl, service unknown.C. Series II. Vol. 10 942.) E. Series II. File 292. (4.)"The HOP bio of Sir John Guildford, the only son of ElizabethMortimer andher husband George Guildford of Hemsted, Kent, has him "born by1508".The above IPM tells us that his parents Elizabeth and George weremarried by Oct. 1494, and that Elizabeth was born around 1476, whichmatches her age in her father's IPM eight years previous.As to who were the parents of David Mortimer, esquire (d. 1494),we still don't know. But I'mguessing that his granddaughter Elizabeth'smarriage to George Guildford(which David must've had a hand in arranging),the younger brother of Sir Edward Guildford, who was married "by 1496" [HOP- bio of Sir EdwardGuildford] to Eleanor West, granddaughter of Sir HughMortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Hampshire, still suggests a connection to thatfamily.David Mortimer marrying an heiress in Essex and having no landsof his own strongly suggests he was a younger son. Perhaps he was ayounger son of a Mortimer from Mortimer's Hall in Hampshire - is Hampshire nearEssex?At any rate, it's great to have some of the blanks filled in.Cheers,------Brad
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Henri Frebault
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